I finally had a chance to watch the clip you linked to.
Again, it's the usual Leftist playbook: instead of comparing Israel with all of the other ACTUAL governments/ societies that have had to deal with minorities whose leaders were murderously hostile, he seems to compare Israel with his Utopian dream, in which no human being would ever hurt another. So of course, by that standard, Israel is found wanting, as would any other society that is made up of actual human beings.
And of course he cites the usual Leftist delusion, that if Israel would just be nice to the terrorists that largely make up the government of the Palestinians currently, they would be nice back ("mutuality"). Sounds wonderful, and I'm sure he feels so virtuous and wonderful about himself. But of course this ignores all real-world experience with bullies and criminals, and all real-world experience Israel has had trying to do exactly what he demands: the worst terrorist atrocities took place AFTER Israel offered Arafat just about everything he said he wanted. What these fools fail to realize is that you can be nice to DECENT people, and be confident that there will be mutuality. But you CANNOT do this with evil people: Nazis (remember Neville Chamberlain?), Communists, Islamic terrorists, malevolent dictators, and criminals of all types take this as a sign of weakness, and just increase their demands and violence.
And then this fool says that the extreme Right is violent, not the extreme Left (oh, excuse me, he says there is no extreme Left). First off, I'd like to compare statistics on violent crime in Israel between those who identify as Right, and those who identify as Left. And if we add late term abortion of babies who are already viable, which to any decent person has got to be something close to murder, there is no comparison.
But Israel has been fortunate so far; the extreme Left has never taken power. Ben Gurion and his ilk, much as we might dislike them, always pushed back against these people and insisted on a strong defense, at least some free enterprise, and a place for religion. If we look at the world scene, the hundred million-plus who have died at the hands of Leftist governments were not so lucky.
You cite this comedian approvingly. Do you sympathize with Leftist positions? Do you think that R' Hirsch sympathized with Leftist positions? Please see his Commentaries on Devarim 22:4, and Tehilim 72:2 (or you can do it the easy way, like I did, and look up "Communism" in the Hirsch Anthology :-)
Where do you see me cite this comedian approvingly? I just posted his point of view. I believe both sides have worthy points and errors too. You believe left is wrong, right is right, and you being right wing are Mr. truth and wisdom and reality. You are as full of yourself as you think this comedian is of himself. The rate of terrorism has increased with increase Israeli strong arm tactics. Used to be 9 per year. Now it's about 100 per year.
You mean of all the thousands of commenters, you chose to feature this one, with almost no comment of your own, but it wasn't meant at all approvingly? Come on....
Another straw man argument: I never said the right is always right. But I suspect that truth isn't even a value to the Left, they lie (or deceive by ommission of critical sense-of-proportion background data) so often.
Please try to avoid the straw---it doesn't put you in the best light.
I post this guy because the frum world is swimming in state worship. We already hear that perspective all day long. People think anybody who criticizes the State of Israel must be an anti-Semite. So now we get to hear from Jews, Israelis even, who have had enough with Israeli gov. and military excesses.
No need to worry, we are swimming in Leftist media. The mantra "be nice to them, and they'll be nice to us" is like a constant bombardment, even after it got a lot of Jews killed when they offered Arafat almost everything he wanted, but he turned to terror instead.
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ReplyDeleteI finally had a chance to watch the clip you linked to.
ReplyDeleteAgain, it's the usual Leftist playbook: instead of comparing Israel with all of the other ACTUAL governments/ societies that have had to deal with minorities whose leaders were murderously hostile, he seems to compare Israel with his Utopian dream, in which no human being would ever hurt another. So of course, by that standard, Israel is found wanting, as would any other society that is made up of actual human beings.
And of course he cites the usual Leftist delusion, that if Israel would just be nice to the terrorists that largely make up the government of the Palestinians currently, they would be nice back ("mutuality"). Sounds wonderful, and I'm sure he feels so virtuous and wonderful about himself. But of course this ignores all real-world experience with bullies and criminals, and all real-world experience Israel has had trying to do exactly what he demands: the worst terrorist atrocities took place AFTER Israel offered Arafat just about everything he said he wanted. What these fools fail to realize is that you can be nice to DECENT people, and be confident that there will be mutuality. But you CANNOT do this with evil people: Nazis (remember Neville Chamberlain?), Communists, Islamic terrorists, malevolent dictators, and criminals of all types take this as a sign of weakness, and just increase their demands and violence.
And then this fool says that the extreme Right is violent, not the extreme Left (oh, excuse me, he says there is no extreme Left). First off, I'd like to compare statistics on violent crime in Israel between those who identify as Right, and those who identify as Left. And if we add late term abortion of babies who are already viable, which to any decent person has got to be something close to murder, there is no comparison.
But Israel has been fortunate so far; the extreme Left has never taken power. Ben Gurion and his ilk, much as we might dislike them, always pushed back against these people and insisted on a strong defense, at least some free enterprise, and a place for religion. If we look at the world scene, the hundred million-plus who have died at the hands of Leftist governments were not so lucky.
You cite this comedian approvingly. Do you sympathize with Leftist positions? Do you think that R' Hirsch sympathized with Leftist positions? Please see his Commentaries on Devarim 22:4, and Tehilim 72:2 (or you can do it the easy way, like I did, and look up "Communism" in the Hirsch Anthology :-)
Where do you see me cite this comedian approvingly? I just posted his point of view. I believe both sides have worthy points and errors too. You believe left is wrong, right is right, and you being right wing are Mr. truth and wisdom and reality. You are as full of yourself as you think this comedian is of himself. The rate of terrorism has increased with increase Israeli strong arm tactics. Used to be 9 per year. Now it's about 100 per year.
ReplyDeleteYou mean of all the thousands of commenters, you chose to feature this one, with almost no comment of your own, but it wasn't meant at all approvingly? Come on....
ReplyDeleteAnother straw man argument: I never said the right is always right. But I suspect that truth isn't even a value to the Left, they lie (or deceive by ommission of critical sense-of-proportion background data) so often.
Please try to avoid the straw---it doesn't put you in the best light.
I post this guy because the frum world is swimming in state worship. We already hear that perspective all day long. People think anybody who criticizes the State of Israel must be an anti-Semite. So now we get to hear from Jews, Israelis even, who have had enough with Israeli gov. and military excesses.
ReplyDeleteNo need to worry, we are swimming in Leftist media. The mantra "be nice to them, and they'll be nice to us" is like a constant bombardment, even after it got a lot of Jews killed when they offered Arafat almost everything he wanted, but he turned to terror instead.
ReplyDeleteThe left wants to be nice. The right wants to provoke. The Talmud says not to provoke the goyim. Remember the Talmud?
Delete